The window of opportunity for peace is a narrow sliver now that close for ever so the subjugation of the Palestinians will continue and the terrorists and extremists will gain an upper hand.

The USA and Israel - and Abbas - had to know that pressuring Abbas into supporting the burying of a human rights vote against Israel would leave him twisting in the wind. And how would a vote against Israel have hurt when it's own analysis said too many civilians were targeted. There are often such problems in warfare and Israel was certainly provoked. There must have been some carrot offered to Abbas: is that why the USA is suddenly so angry about the continued expansion of settlements? If we lose Abbas, we help Hamas.

Yep, go ahead and bring down the least violent among yourselves and then let Israel have its ways with you all. Are these people humans? Since they all like martyrdom so much, why not let Israel make martyrs out of them? Let them bring down Abbas and start throwing rocks at Israel again. I'm sure after tens of thousands of martyrs they'll be calling for a cease-fire. My only problem with them is why they need to kill other people in their process of becoming martyrs. Just put yourselves on fire and tell the whole world this is how much you love your country that you sacrifice yourselves. These lunatics never cease to amaze us just like the extremists here in the United States.

well wa’d, no one voted for abbas and his presidency was expired one year ago. some people are so dumb to realize that one has the right to fight for his freedom. it’s okay for israel to defend itself ON THE PALESTINIAN LAND but not okay for the occupied people to defend themselves. it’s okay to kill and arrest civilians with or without a reason but it’s not okay for them to resist the occupation. Goldston is a jewish and zionist judge and he accused israel for committing crucial war crimes and now we hear some ignorant people who have no idea what’s going on on palestine defending those criminals. this world has ceased to make sense a long time ago

oh crap!!! heard what Abbas did to Nabeel Amr for criticizing Abbas? haha it was hilarious .. the photo of abbas above is sooooo funny ROFL!!

Mohammed Taha: “no one voted for abbas and his presidency was expired one year ago.”

So was the term of office for the Hamas representatives of the Palestinian Parliament as well as Ismael Hanyeh’s term of office as Prime Minister. Neither Fatah nor Hamas is presently a legitimate representative of anyone until new elections are held.

Mohammed, IF it was a question of resisting occupation, I would back your opinion 100%. The sad fact is, however, that the Arab-Israeli conflict goes back to the time when the only “occupation” was the British occupation of the Palestine Mandate. Arab Muslims have been killing non-Muslims for over 1,000 years in the Middle East and when they have no infidels to kill, they kill each other. Conflict seems to be a way of life for Arab Muslims.

Wa’d:

The comment was actually meant for M. Taha, but since you chose to respond, we can “go around the merry-go-round” once more…

Whatever horror stories you have, the “other side” has them, too. Remember always that the initial refusal to accept any non-Arab state in Palestine back in 1948 was an ARAB decision. Arab leaders vowed the “victorious Arab armies would drive the Jews into the sea”… Nasser swore to the same thing in 1967, along with Jordan and Syria.

The so-called “Israeli-Palestinian conflict” is a smoke screen created by Arab propagandists to camouflage this, and judging from comments here and on other forums, they have succeeded.

Propagandists have turned this from a genocidal intent by the Arab League to destroy Israel into a farcical “struggle for the independence of the Palestinian people”—a “people” who did not even exist until after the war of aggression against Israel in 1967. In fact, even well into the 1970s, Arab and “Palestinian” politicians admitted freely that “there is no such thing as a Palestinian people” and that the claim was a tactic used to destroy Israel. Since the Egypt-Israel peace treaty, this honesty has gone underground, replaced by crocodile tears for the “Palestinian martyrs” struggling under the “brutal Israeli occupation”.

When 900,000 Jews were divested of their possessions and citizenship in Arab countries and expelled, there were countries that accepted them—Israel took in 650,000 of them at a time when its own population was barely over 1 million, while Western Europe and the Americas took in the rest. When 650,000 Arabs left what had been the Palestine Mandate (some expelled, more left on their own without ever seeing a Jewish soldier or hearing the sounds of battle), no one took them in.

Even Arab residents of Palestine who held citizenship in other Arab countries were divested of their citizenships to become refugees (almost half of the 650,000 Arabs who left the Mandate were migrant workers who were never “Palestinians”).

Arab leaders need a “boogey-man” for the people to hate and occupy their thoughts, for fear that if they had the time to look at their own leaders, the leaders would find themselves hanging from the nearest tree or lamppost for their corruption, oppression and criminal behavior against their own people.

No Arab country wants the “Palestinians”, and for good reason. As a group, Palestinians have been the major disturbance in the Middle East, attempting to take over Jordan in 1970, being one of the prime movers behind the Lebanese civil war (while massacring Christians and Muslims alike, robbing banks and living like lords with their stolen funds), have supported Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait (and been expelled by the restored Kuwaiti government), expelled from Iraq by its new government for supporting Saddam Hussein… and apparently, even Jordan is divesting Palestinians of their Jordanian citizenship.

I’m not saying that there are no good, decent people among the Palestinians—but their collective history is one of turmoil, hatred and violence. The voices of the decent ones are silent either out of fear or an unwillingness to take up an unpopular cause… such as peace with Israel.

Understand one thing: the more violence is directed against us, the more stubborn we will become. The choice is an Arab choice—friend or foe, we can be either, depending on what you want us to be.

some people are so convinced that what’s israel doing on palestine is not an occupation. it’s okay to kill innocents, imprison them, steal their lands, close the borders, sell the palestinians’ bodily parts, prevent them from declaring their own country. it’ll take me hours to count the israeli crimes so u can just refresh ur memory and see how disgusting the israeli regime is. it’s weird how only muslims being accused of all the evils in this world. 1000 years of killing ”infidels”? I mean come on who did the WW1 and the WW2? was it the muslims? who did the holocaust? was hitler a muslim too? who supported hitler’s crime in europe? they all remained silent and didnt do anything for your people. yeah the same hypocrite countries that are remaining silent to all what’s happpening in palestone, iraq, aafghanistan, chechenya etc etc. Any idea what did the spanish did to indians in america? any idea what they did in the name of ”jesus”? who enslaved africans? who was the racist here? was it the muslims too?
who thinks low of other people? lemme ask you something .. why a jew never preaches for his religion? isn’t that cz u think ur the ”chosen people” and you’re above all people? I still remember the US representative to the UN once said ” morally we can’t compare between the jewish and the arab blood” during the israeli war on lebanon, wasn’t that racism? just because they think they are above the rest doesn’t mean they should commit all these unhumane crimes. Some jews are ungrateful to the muslims, when they were badly kicked out of Andalus by those spanish tyrants at that time, they were welcomed in north africa, when they were being killed in europe, they found refuge in turkey. why there were no holocausts when muslims were ruling the world? huh? doesn’t that ring any bell?
how many wars has israel had since they established their own state on the palestinian lands? how many people have they killed? any idea?
we muslims don’t have problems with jews or judaism, we have it with the israeli war criminals and once they admit the palestinians’ right to live as any other normal human being then we are accepting them as they are. there are respectful jews like Goldstone who by the way, received many threats for being honest in his investigation by some extremist jews. His daughter in canada got the same threats, why would some jews threaten to kill him and his daughter? oh well .. maybe they were threatened by muslims

MT: “some people are so convinced that what’s israel doing on palestine is not an occupation. it’s okay to kill innocents, imprison them, steal their lands, close the borders, sell the palestinians’ bodily parts, prevent them from declaring their own country.”

Arabs in Palestine could have declared their own country in 1948, but they were too busy insisting that “there was no such thing as Palestine” and declaring that they would “drive the Jews into the sea”. Only after it became obvious that this wouldn’t happen, more than 20 years later, did these same Arabs become “Palestinians” overnight.

Ask any doctor about the so-called “body parts” accusation—without mentioning Israel—and they will tell you that organs must be harvested from live donors, not dead bodies.

Stealing land? Arab states stole land equal to almost 5 times the area of Israel when they expelled 900,000 Jews after disenfranchisement and divestment. Many of them spent time in Arab jails for the same crime, tortured and beaten by Arab police to confess to imaginary crimes.

Kill innocents? Since the Arab anti-Jewish riots of 1920, more than 3,700 Jewish civilians of the Palestine Mandate and later the state of Israel have died from terrorism—killed by Arab murderers.

MT: “it’ll take me hours to count the israeli crimes so u can just refresh ur memory and see how disgusting the israeli regime is. it’s weird how only muslims being accused of all the evils in this world. 1000 years of killing ”infidels”? I mean come on who did the WW1 and the WW2? was it the muslims? who did the holocaust? was hitler a muslim too? who supported hitler’s crime in europe? they all remained silent and didnt do anything for your people. yeah the same hypocrite countries that are remaining silent to all what’s happpening in palestone, iraq, aafghanistan, chechenya etc etc.”

The Ottoman Empire was a party of the “Central Powers” in WW I, allied with Germany, Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria. Muslims supported Hitler—Bosnian Muslims served in three SS divisions that were tried for crimes against humanity at Nuremberg. Read the memoirs of Haj Amin al-Husseini, who describes the agreement given by Hitler for him to take charge of the “Final Solution” for Jews in the Middle East, with the promise of German technology for mass murder. Read Liddell-Hart about the collaboration of Arabs with Nazi Germany. Learn some real history instead of the fiction you’ve been taught.

MT: “Any idea what did the spanish did to indians in america? any idea what they did in the n ame of ”jesus”? who enslaved africans? who was the racist here? was it the muslims too?”

I probably have a better idea than you what white Europeans did to the Indians in the Americas, both North and South. As for who enslaved Africans, you should know better. Arab slave traders were plying the African continent for black slaves while Europeans still believed the earth was flat—and some are still plying their trade.

MT: “lemme ask you something .. why a jew never preaches for his religion? isn’t that cz u think ur the ”chosen people” and you’re above all people?”

It’s because Judaism preaches that a person must decide for himself what path he will follow without coercion or influence. It has nothing to do with being any kind of “chosen people” or feeling superior, it has to do with conscience, free will and self-determination.

“One volunteer is worth a thousand conscripts.” – William Shakespeare

MT: “I still remember the US representative to the UN once said ” morally we can’t compare between the jewish and the arab blood” during the israeli war on lebanon, wasn’t that racism?”

It was probably a comment directed at the Arab tendency to kill non-combatants, use their own population as human shields and wage war from civilian-populated areas to avoid retaliation. If you want to see racism in that, then go ahead.

MT: “just because they think they are above the rest doesn’t mean they should commit all these unhumane crimes. Some jews are ungrateful to the muslims, when they were badly kicked out of Andalus by those spanish tyrants at that time, they were welcomed in north africa, when they were being killed in europe, they found refuge in turkey. why there were no holocausts when muslims were ruling the world? huh? doesn’t that ring any bell?”

Muslim rule was capricious, at best, dependent on the whims of the local head of power. While there were no holocausts, there were periodic riots where Muslims killed hundreds, sometimes thousands of Jews. One such incident was in Grenada, Spain in 1066 where 4,000 Jews were massacred by Muslims in a single day. History abounds with such incidents, as well as the general suppression of Jews and any other non-Muslim as dhimma, made into second-class citizens under Islamic law. Now you tell me, who thinks they’re superior to others?

MT: “how many wars has israel had since they established their own state on the palestinian lands? how many people have they killed? any idea?”

1948 – War of Independence: Israel attacked by six Arab armies: Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and an irregular force made up of Arab brigands.

1956 – Sinai Campaign: Egypt closed the Suez Canal and the Strait of Trian to Israeli shipping (an act of war under international law).

1967 – 6-Day War: Egypt again closed the Strait of Tiran, removed the UN Peacekeeping forces from Sinai and inserted more than half its army along the Sinai-Israel border.

1973 – Yom Kippur War: Egypt and Syria attacked Israel on Yom Kippur.

1982 – First Lebanon War: Israel embarked on a relatiatory campaign to expel the PLO from Lebanon after it had fired several thousand Katyusha rockets into northern Israel and inserted and attempted to insert terrorist cells for the purposes of kidnapping, murdering Israeli civilians and freeing imprisoned terrorists.

2006 – Second Lebanon War: Retaliation for the killing of 6 Israeli soldiers and the kidnapping (and subsequent murder) of two more in a Hizballah cross-border raid. The two soldiers’ dead bodies were ransomed for live terrorists.

2008 – Operation Cast Lead: Israeli retaliation for over 8,000 Qassam rockets fired into Israeli civilian towns, villages and farms.

Each and every one of these wars was a defensive war on the part of Israel, confirmed by international law. Who does that leave as the aggressors?

MT: “we muslims don’t have problems with jews or judaism, we have it with the israeli war criminals and once they admit the palestinians’ right to live as any other normal human being then we are accepting them as they are.”

Perhaps you should say “we Muslims don’t have problems with Jews or Judaism, as long as they remember their place as dhimma. What we can’t accept is self-determination and independence for them.” That would be closer to the truth.

The intent of the Arab League in 1948 was to exterminate Israel and the Jews. Arabs who lived in the Palestinian Mandate were advised and even ordered to leave by the Arab League, to give the Arab armies a “free-fire zone”, after which they would return to their homes and divide the loot—“the Jewish land, the Jewish gold and the Jewish women”. Radio broadcasts to this effect were recorded by British intelligence prior to May 14, 1948 and are stored in a warehouse in Haifa as evidence, so there can’t be much argument about the truth of this claim. How would you treat people whose declared objective in life is to massacre your family, friends and entire country as well as stealing everything you have ever built?

What of the Jews from Arab countries expelled after 1948 with nothing but one suitcase and $50? Do you even know that in addition to the 650,000 Arab refugees from Palestine, there were over 900,000 Jews expelled from Arab countries for the “crime” of being Jewish? When you lobby for the same rights for the Jewish refugees that you demand for the Arab refugees, we may have something to talk about.

MT: “ there are respectful jews like Goldstone who by the way, received many threats for being honest in his investigation by some extremist jews. His daughter in canada got the same threats, why would some jews threaten to kill him and his daughter? oh well .. maybe they were threatened by muslims”

No, there are Jewish fanatics as well—but they don’t blow themselves up in a Ramallah shopping mall to kill civilians, nor do the incite hatred in entire generations of Jews. They are a minority and mostly outlawed in Israel.

“Respectful Jews”? Do you mean Jews who accept a biased mandate and produce a biased report? History abounds with such collaborators: Pierre Laval of France (who collaborated with the Nazis), Vidkun Quisling of Norway (also collaborated with the Nazis) and Haj Amin al-Husseini, a former Mufti of Jerusalem, who collaborated with the Nazis and espoused the “Final Solution” with German technology for all Jews in the Middle East, to name just a few.

How many people have been murdered for “insulting Islam”? How many are under threat of death?

Geert Wilders, Salman Rushdie, Theo van Gogh, twelve Danish cartoonists… and so many more. How many fatwahs decreeing death sentences are issued annually?

This behavior makes it hard to believe that Islam is a “religion of peace”.

“You cannot enslave a free man; the most you can do is kill him.” - Robert A. Heinlein

Get used to it—there are other human beings with rights—and Arabs have to learn to respect that.

Wa’d: “I totally understand and agree with that, cz this is exactly how I feel about this whole issue, I however have one condition to be able to accept the idea of peace with Israel... Palestinian refugees need to be accepted back and given same rights as Israelis... I think that down deep in ur heart u see something fair in this deal... I don’t think it’s too much to ask, it is only fair this way... u can’t expect peace for nothing in return, no1 can, that would be plain naive, wouldn’t it?!!”

How naïve is it to expect compensation or right of return for Arab refugees without demanding the same rights for the Jewish refugees from Arab lands?

I see you studiously avoid the issue of the Jewish refugees from Arab lands and deny their existence by inference.

Until the issue of the Jewish refugees from Arab lands is recognized by the Arabs as part of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the fact that any solution must include them is accepted, there is no way a real peace can be achieved.

Your ignoring (and tacitly denying) their existence creates a double standard that can’t be accepted. Arab refugees from the Palestine Mandate land should have the same rights as Jewish refugees from the Arab states. Both are the victims of the same conflict and should receive the same justice.

Wa’d: “I don’t answer on behalf of all Arabs, I discuss things from a Palestinian perspective... other Arabs didn’t really help Palestinians when ur country invaded mine, so why should I take responsibility for their actions? what ur asking here is not fair.”

So much for the fallacy of “pan-Arabism”. When ‘my country invaded yours’? What are you talking about? When the UN voted for partition of Palestine, it was the ARABS who refused to accept it and embarked on a war whose declared objective was conquest and genocide. Armies from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq, plus an “irregular Arab Liberation Army” force led by the Syrian Fawzi el Kawukji invaded the newly-declared Israel. This was done in the name of “Arab unity”. It would seem that “Arab unity” has nothing to do with loss, only with conquest…

If you’re talking about Yasser Arafat’s “Zionist invasion” of the 1880s, ask yourself what kind of invaders come with farm tools and money to buy land. Exactly what kind of invasion is that?

The real invaders of Palestine AND the Mediterranean coast, from Syria to Morocco, were Arabs—Muslims from the Arabian Peninsula where Islam originated.

Wa’d: “However, those who want to go live in their ”promised land” can do so cz they have a government there, and that’s Israel.”

Yes, this is the party line—the Arab claim that the Jews from Arab lands emigrated to Israel out of Zionism or nationalism. Zionist Jews from Arab lands had mostly emigrated long before 1948, those remaining had somewhere between little and no interest in the new country, having lived in the countries they were resident in since long before, some as much as 2600 years—more than 1,000 years before the advent of Islam and the Islamic invasions of Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco.

The expulsion of 900,000 Jews from Arab lands was pure spite—revenge on “the Jews” for not having laid down and died in front of the Arab armies in “Palestine”, the way “good Jews” were supposed to—and as revenge for the Arab refugees from Palestine.

Wa’d: “The day u recognise me, I will recognise you... not rocket science :)”

I say it’s the other way around—the day you recognize that the Jews from Arab lands became refugees because of the Arab refugees from Palestine, then I can recognize you. As you say, it’s not rocket science.

From UN Resolution 194, Article 11: “Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;”

There are two points in this article that need to be emphasized: first, it does not say “Arab refugees” or “Palestinian refugees”—it says “refugees”—which infers that ALL the refugees created by the conflict should be allowed to return or receive compensation, not just the Arab refugees. Secondly, there is one phrase constantly ignored by Arabs: “…and live at peace with their neighbors…” Can you honestly say that the Palestinians, either in a new nation called “Palestine” (or whatever you want to call it) or within the borders of Israel are willing to “live at peace with their neighbors”?

So far there’s been no indication of it. When the Palestinian National Charter rejects violence and removes the Articles calling for the destruction of Israel (as the Palestinian Authority committed itself to do in the Oslo Accord), maybe we can talk about reality and not theory.