maybe if Israel returns their lands, they will stop such actions.

What we really have are two peoples that both have justifiable claims, but only one acknowledges the other’s claim.

Has anyone asked why creating two states was unacceptable to the Palestinians in 1937 and 1948, but suddenly became acceptable in 1993 (Oslo Accord)?

Jews and Arabs have been present in the Middle East when all good Europeans were still living in caves and painting themselves blue with woad.

For many years, Arabs in Palestine denied the existence of such an entity as ”Palestine”, calling it ”an invention of the Zionists”, yet now lay claim to an entity they themselves denied for all that time.

Tell me, Wa’d: what kind of ”conqueror” comes with farm tools and money to buy land? Conquerors come with weapons and war, subjugating the indigenous people, just as the Islamic Empire came out of the Arabian Peninsula to conquer Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine (including what is now Jordan), Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and more lands... shouldn’t they also be considered land thieves?

In all your posts, you fail to acknowledge that Arab countries expelled 900,000 Jewish residents whose families had lived in those countries for hundreds of years before they were Arab countries, but pay homage to 600,000 Arabs who left Palestine (many at the urging of the Higher Arab Committee long before May, 1948). Why does one group deserve more than the other?

You want the issue of the Palestinian Arab refugees solved? Fine– then admit that the issue of the Jewish refugees from Arab lands must also be solved. Justice for one side only is no justice at all.

Almost 60% of today’s Jewish population in Israel are these Jewish refugees from Arab lands and their descendants. With all the demands that ”Israelis return to Europe where they came from”, where do you plan on sending these people... more than four million of them?

Another question: There are 22 states in the Arab League and 57 Islamic states in the OIC. Islam is native to Saudi Arabia, so the remainder were conquered in one way or another. What is your poroblem with a single Jewish state established in the land where Jews have the longest continuous presence (over 3,000 years - more than twice the time Islam has even existed)?

Your own country has anti-Jewish laws: a Jew can not buy property or receive Jordanian citizenship, the same laws that the Palestinian Authority adopted, yet you demand that Israel accept any and all who claim they are Palestinians under some ”right of return”. Are you willing to grant the same ”right of return” to the Jews expelled from their homes in Arab lands?

Micheal always seems to have the answers that suites himself and i wouldn’t believe a word the man said because arrogance has no sight or compromise
A man that can’t find a message unless it is perfect in grammer is so narcissistic everything he sees is himself
What title-deeds do the Jews of today actually have to the land of ’Israel’? The idea that a people can possess some kind of ethnic ancestral right to a territory supposedly vacated by their forebears some millenia previously, implying a right in perpetuity, can have no legal basis. Or otherwise Americans of European ancestry, to name just one group of people, will have to pack their bags.

The Jewish population of Palestine [what is now Israel and the occupied territories, the West Bank and Gaza] at the time of the Balfour Declaration in 1917 was a mere 7 percent of the 700,000 inhabitants. The rest were Muslim and Christian Arabs. At the time of the (US-dominated UN) partition vote in 1947 there were only 650,000 Jews in Palestine while there were 1.3 million indigenous Palestinian Arabs, either Christian or Muslim. Under the partition plan, 56% of Palestine was given for a Zionist state to people who constituted 33% of the population and owned about 6% of the land. These UN figures have never been in dispute.”

But there is a further issue, which also (yet again!) demonstrates the fundamentally questionable foundations of Zionism.

Jews are actually not even the modern descendants of the Israel of the Biblical Old Testament:

According to both the early-20th-century popular historian H.G.Wells and the Hungarian-Jewish intellectual and author Arthur Koestler, amongst numerous others, the people known today as Jews are primarily the descendants of a Turkish tribe known as the Khazars. The Khazars have no historical connection to Palestine. They converted to Judaism between 620 and 740AD, and have no genetic connection to biblical Israel, and hence to the narratives of the Bible and the ”Holy Land”. Koestler actually devoted an entire book called The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the fact that the Jews of eastern European origin, who are known as the Ashkenazi Jews and who make up about 95% of the Jewish population of today, are of Khazar origin. In other words — virtually all of the Jews of the modern world have no Hebrew ancestry, and no ancient connection with Palestine.
To confuse the Jews of today with the Hebrews of the Bible is like believing that the Cherokee ’Indians’ not only follow the Hindu religion but will eventually return in triumph to the valley of the sacred Ganges.

You seem to be confused, Wayne. You should learn to do you homework just a little better…

Unfortunately for your theory, Mr. (Il)Logic, DNA studies have proved that less than 5% of the Ashkenazi Jewish population carry Khazar genes. On the other hand, the same DNA studies have found many common genes between the Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews, pointing to common ancestors and a common origin. If you had just bothered to Google “Khazars+DNA” and read a few articles, you would have found that Koestler’s theories were dumped years ago in light of the results from those DNA studies—instead of bringing up a theory that was discredited more than ten years ago.

Other than that, according to Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, over 60% of Israel’s Jewish population is partly or wholly Mizrahi (Middle Eastern Jews), indigenous to the Middle East.

“Under the partition plan, 56% of Palestine was given for a Zionist state to people who constituted 33% of the population and owned about 6% of the land. These UN figures have never been in dispute.”

It is also not disputed that more than half of the “56%” allotted to the Jewish state was the Negev Desert, south of Beersheba, which no Arabs wanted, except the Bedouins, who only wanted to be left alone by the authorities. It’s hard work making the desert bloom. Take a good look at the Partition Plan map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

At any rate, take into account that the entire area partitioned by the UN was only about 20% of the Mandate for Palestine given to Great Britain by the League of Nations. In 1922, Britain partitioned Palestine at the line of the Jordan River, down to the Guld of Aqaba/Eilat, prohibiting Jews from living or buying land east of the river. This land is now called the Kingdom of Jordan, and it made up 78% of the area of the Palestine Mandate. In 1923, Britain ceded the Golan Heights to the French Mandate of Syria under the conditions of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, made in 1916. This sliced off another 2% of the area of the Mandate, leaving 20% as a possible state for the Jews, at most. For a map of the original British Mandate, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

For a look at the way the British sliced up the Mandate, see: http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1923-1948-british-mandate.html

“What title-deeds do the Jews of today actually have to the land of ’Israel’?”

It seems to have escaped your notice yet again that there has been an UNBROKEN Jewish presence in the land since the time of King David and King Saul more than 3,000 years ago.

People emigrate for many reasons, forced dispersion by a conquering country being only one of them. Jews who had lived in Europe, Yemen, Ethiopia, India, most Arab countries and from as far away as China and Singapore emigrated over the centuries to Israel/Palestine because that was where they wanted to live, for a variety of reasons… to their historical homeland. If you justify the Palestinian claim of an “ancestral homeland”, then you also have to justify the Jewish claim.

Why did your ancestors choose to leave Europe for Canada? Or were they forced to leave for some other reason… such as being transported for stealing a loaf of bread?

Wayne, repeating an untruth will not make the statement any less of an untruth, unless you subscribe to the “Big Lie” theory. Judging by your argument, this may well be the case…

“i don’t stand for anything that man has forced on others and that is somthing a brainwashed person wouldn’t understand”

This makes you a perfect example of Voltaire’s claim that there are two ways to slide through life—believing everything or disbelieving everything. You seem to “slide through life” without making a commitment by disbelieving everything. In effect, it’s just a different kind of brainwashing. Normal people evaluate on a case-by-case basis, taking nothing for granted before they decide.

The facts are out there for anyone to see and judge for themselves, like this:

“Advanced genetic testing, including Y-DNA and mtDNA haplotyping, of modern Jewish communities around the world, has helped to determine which of the communities are likely to descend from the Israelites and which are not, as well as to establish the degrees of separation between the groups. Important studies archived here include the University College London study of 2002, Ariella Oppenheim’s study of 2001, Ariella Oppenheim’s study of 2000, Michael Hammer’s study of 2000, Doron Behar’s study of 2008, and others.
“Key findings:
• The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.
• Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite Y-DNA haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).”

From: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

Since the Ashkenazim lived in Europe for over 1,000 years, a certain amount of Khazar and Slavic genes were inevitable, but their presence does not mask the true Middle Eastern origins of the Jews. So much for your Khazar claim.

To the best of my knowledge, the only web sites still offering the “Khazar Claim” are some pro-Palestinian sites and most neo-Nazi and other racist sites, so I have to wonder where you got it from…

Yes, I am openly pro-Israel and proud of my country, although not blind to its faults—you should try it some time. There are certainly enough pro-Palestinian posters here and on other forums to present the Palestinian side. Would you expect a prosecutor to do the defense attorney’s job (or vice-versa) for him in court? Does a debate team espouse its competitor’s stance during a debate? Obviously not, although they know their opponent’s viewpoint at least as well as the opponent does.

You, on the other hand, remind me of the Catholic priest offering marriage counseling to a couple: an unqualified person offering advice on a topic he knows noting about except through second-hand information, at best.

If you really want to understand the Arab-Israeli conflict, why don’t you try visiting http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/ as a primer and conduct your own research from there?

Nuya
Thanks –and i am totally aware that my point of view would be rhetorical
He is a big example why the earth is screwed up
People that live for borers and flags to seperate themselves from others will never understand compromise

Nunya
Like i said -i am you and you are me, so to hurt you is to hurt me and if i kill your family it is like killing my own family,
Until we realize we are the same and feel the same we are destined to war on

To Wayne Logic & Nuya Bidness:

Two posters here with terribly flawed logic. One short look at this site alone will give the lie to your comments lumping two people in one category:

Marco Villa: Member since September, 2008

Articles: 948
Links: 13

Michael Davison: Member since July, 2008

Articles: 16
Links: 17

Check the content of the articles and links. I dare you to prove that my posts are of the same nature as those of Marco’s. I also dare you to prove that my posts are anywhere near the level of plagiarism that Marco exhibits (out of 948 articles, around 800 were taken verbatim from other sources and presented as his own work).

You may not like what I have to say, but I have the right to say what I think, just as much as the two of you do.